Curse

*Darcy* · Jun 27, 2008, 12:18 PM // 12:18

Unexpert opinion here

1. Check out some of your local computer shops (I mean the small ones). They will often build you a computer for less than you can buy online. Especially if you are willing to go with used parts for some things.

2. Wait until you are desperate (and GW2 has a release date). Prices for the top end now will constantly drop as the product ages (and nothing ages faster than pc tech).

3. You are playing GW on a laptop. I can play GW on my brother's laptop. ANet has said that GW2 will continue the "tradition" of low specs (probably not as low as Prophecies). Just plan on replacing your laptop for GW2 with appropriate graphic specs. If it's designed for watching movies, it will most likely not have problems with GW2. While this would most likely cost more than a desktop, it would answer to the argument that you don't need two computers.

Crimson Flame · Jun 27, 2008, 12:25 PM // 12:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darcy

Unexpert opinion here

1. Check out some of your local computer shops (I mean the small ones). They will often build you a computer for less than you can buy online. Especially if you are willing to go with used parts for some things.

2. Wait until you are desperate (and GW2 has a release date). Prices for the top end now will constantly drop as the product ages (and nothing ages faster than pc tech).

3. You are playing GW on a laptop. I can play GW on my brother's laptop. ANet has said that GW2 will continue the "tradition" of low specs (probably not as low as Prophecies). Just plan on replacing your laptop for GW2 with appropriate graphic specs. If it's designed for watching movies, it will most likely not have problems with GW2. While this would most likely cost more than a desktop, it would answer to the argument that you don't need two computers.

Low specs are a good thing. As of right now, I think the main issue I have is that I'm running an Intel 945GM integrated chipset - which has had plenty of compatibility issues with GW. I've checked to see how my current computer matches up with the required specs, and the only thing the chipset is really missing is a vertex shader.

I'll probably wind up replacing my laptop with a desktop anyway after I get out of law school next year, when the laptop isn't a requirement. When I do that, I'll try to convince my wife that we need a desktop with just a tiny bit of gaming power.

I want to get GW2 as soon as I can, but since there's no definite release date I probably should just hold off on purchasing. These are all good ideas, though, and I'll definitely keep them in mind when I do go computer shopping.

ducktape · Jun 27, 2008, 03:01 PM // 15:01

Just wanted to warn you that if you go the 'local computer shop' route, make sure they are not scammers.

There are unfortunately lots of independent 'computer shop' places that sell you a genuine copy of windows with your computer, but then conveniently do not give you a copy of the windows CD, and also conveniently do not embed a copy of the windows CD on the hard drive for you to do a system reinstall or windows repair. They then offer to 'fix' your computer whenever you need to repair or reinstall windows and charge you for something you could have done yourself if you had the Windows CD that you're entitled to receive. Taking your computer to other stores to be 'fixed' will cost you more since they will need to sell you a copy of Windows. If you're all 'WTF why didn't you give me the Windows CD, shouldn't it have come with the computer' some places will try and tell you that they own the Windows and you don't, and other scammy things, and you'll probably end up having to buy Windows on your own at that point. Demand the Windows CD when purchasing the computer, just to be on the safe side. Do not purchase a computer from a place that won't give you the CD. Do not pay for the CD unless they can prove to you that the Windows CD is also on the hard drive. They are required to give you one free copy of the Windows CD, and are in violation of Microsoft licensing otherwise. If the physical CD would be an 'extra copy', do not pay more than $20 for the CD or you are getting ripped off.

Also, be careful if buying your computer from somewhere like Dell or other big-name PC makers, most of them just put Windows on your hard drive so that you can do a factory restore. That's all fine, but then if your hard drive is ever dead, and the computer is out of warranty, you either have to buy a hard drive from them pre-loaded with Windows, for inflated prices, OR wait a couple weeks to get your Windows CD in the mail from them. There is an option to get an actual CD of windows with your computer (when you are ordering it) for $10-$20, depending on the vendor, and I strongly recommend you choose that option!

Have fun computer shopping when you are ready.

Crimson Flame · Jun 27, 2008, 04:34 PM // 16:34

The Windows CD isn't an issue. Since I'm a law student at Indiana University, and the university has an agreement with Microsoft, I can get a genuine copy of Windows for something like $10. I'm not sure if it would be Vista Home Premium or what - I know it used to be XP Pro. But I'll keep that advice in mind.

The Meth · Jun 27, 2008, 07:26 PM // 19:26

Let me reiterate that Anet devs have confirmed GW2 to be a DX9 game, and they were considering whether to include optional DX10 support. You definitely won't need a top notch rig or windows vista to play it, just get out of the integrated range into anything that came out in the last 2 years and you should be fine as far as video cards are concerned.

BTW if you need to get a copy of Windows XP, better to do it sooner then later. Microsoft is stopping sales of XP next week. I don't know if this affects universities, but better to be safe then sorry.

You might want to look at what deals you can get through IU. I believe its a 10% discount for a number of manufactures. Just check to make sure they aren't overcharging you more in the first place. Its not unlikely that a lot of the supposed 'deals' are much worse then what you can get from anywhere else.

Liberations · Jun 27, 2008, 07:36 PM // 19:36

1) wait till GW 2 gets closer to look for computers.
2) I guarantee GW 2 will have Direct3D 10 support. If it doesn't in 2009, that would be sneered at tremendously by critics and players. Besides DirectX 11 (and Direct3D 11 consequently) are probably not that far away from 2009/2010.
We can probably expect GW 2 to have DX 11 features added later on too, but thats looking in to the future.
*EDIT* All dell PCs come with a CD of Windows. I have never seen one that hasn't had it.

Showtime · Jun 28, 2008, 07:07 PM // 19:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by zamial

How does rajha know? he is a genius chip designer and tries very hard to not make people look stupid, which I am sure is not hard for him to do. He also has 1, mind it is not a release version, just a test version.

we can NOT say that every year much longer. This is why: The chip manufacturer in question policy/trend has been release new acritecture, then die shrink by nearly 50%. (At this point I am a parrot) The "new chip will be 45nm at start, and die shrunk to 32." The next chip after that(sandybridge?) will start at 32 and shrink to ?????, as 16 nm technology can not happen with the materials that are currently being used. 16nm is to thin and the electrons go through the "chip walls", not to mention the gate issue. It may be possible for a 24nm but I am not a chip designer by any strech of the imagination. so they increase band width add hyper threading with multiple cpu's. this can also be something to look into: when a computer, esspecially a laptop has a massive malfuction, you are talking about a class A electrical fire on your lap/ in your house, this is not a joke.

Specs are in wiki. Sounds nice.

But if he wanted to get a system sooner I gave him all he needs. Use one of those deals sites that I listed and save money on whenever you buy your next system. Anyone who shops for tech stuff and doesn't use one of the dozens of legit deal sites is wasting a lot of money imo.

As far as the new technology goes, every 6 months or so they release some new chip. Usually it's just upgrade to an existing chip (increased clock speed/more memory/smaller(lower power consumption)/etc), but sometimes it's much more than that. This is one of those times.

Manufacturers also cut prices on older stuff every 6 months or so. Or whenever they release something new or the competition does or the competition drops prices on their stuff.

Now you can say wait 1 or 2 months and it makes sense for some people, but if you say wait for 6 months for a potential launch that could be pushed back even longer...

If he wants to game today and next year and the year after, any intel 2.4ghz+ dual core should be fine. Add that 4850 and he will be good to go (20" widescreeen or less).

I stopped upgrading my stuff every year when I realized I mostly play GW and my system could handle CS etc just fine. Today I still run a single core opty [email protected] with an nvidia [email protected] at high settings 1680x1050. I don't bother oc'ing it anymore and changed out 7900GT to make it run quiet. Even though it gets around 30% faster when I do oc. This 3 year old system is more than enuff for gw and my 5 year old AMD 3200/Radeon 9700 runs it fine on lower settings. The point being that if he wants to get a system sooner, he will be just fine. Just wait for a good dell, etc deal and buy one of those radeon 4850 that have been on sale for $150ish lately. I have never seen this much bang for the buck come out for new video card launch. I remember wasting $400 on a 6800GT and around $300 on a 7900GT and said never again.

The only techy thing to worry about is you might want to add aftermarket cooling to the video card and you might need to add ram. Adding ram takes 5 minutes and there are guides online. Changing the cooler might take you an hour, but there are guides for that too and it's not very difficult.

Some people game on larger monitors than I do, but you will love gaming on a 20/21/21" widescreen. It will make your laptop seem too small after a while. So if you can, wait for deal that includes one.

moriz · Jun 28, 2008, 07:22 PM // 19:22

rajha is one of the chip designers working on nehalem. he also helped design the new GTX200 series chip. it's a good idea to listen to what he has to say, and take his recommendations seriously.

Lurid · Jun 29, 2008, 01:37 AM // 01:37

The fact of the matter is there is always something "just around the corner" at a certain point you have to cut your losses and purchase something. Yes, I agree that at certain times its best to just kind of see whats about to happen but you can't think about that constantly without either spending a ton of money needlessly and / or having huge buyers remorse constantly.

Crimson Flame · Jun 30, 2008, 02:44 PM // 14:44

This looks pretty attractive to me.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage....2038159 23631

I saw it only has a GeForce 7100. I'd probably have to upgrade that to play GW2, wouldn't I? I'm just bouncing ideas off of you guys - does that look like a decent mid-line rig?

moriz · Jun 30, 2008, 02:51 PM // 14:51

geforce 7100 is an integrated chip. it's will run GW, but it won't run too well.

again, you'll be getting a much better deal if you build it yourself. that computer is essentially made up of outdated parts, crammed into a case that's too small for future upgrades, and probably has a crappy PSU to boot.

Crimson Flame · Jun 30, 2008, 03:02 PM // 15:02

Ah, didn't know that. See, this is why I ask you questions.

Crimson Flame · Jun 30, 2008, 04:39 PM // 16:39

So I've looked around newegg a bit - are these two computers functionally interchangeable? I know they're the same price, and it's a price I like. Also, is the 8400 going to be enough to run GW2 decently (hypothetically speaking, of course)?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16883229028
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16883227043

Also, can anyone recommend a monitor in the $100-200 range?

Lurid · Jun 30, 2008, 05:47 PM // 17:47

Honestly unless you have some sort of extreme aversion to building one of your own i'd suggest it whole heartedly. The hardest portion of it (research on the parts) is, for the most part being done for you...everything else is more or less color coded "slot in" type installations. It really isn't that daunting, and after you've done it you'll laugh at being weary of the process most likely.

Those barebones / prebuilts generally use generic parts, the PSUs are horrid, and they're generally overpriced for what they are. I'm sure you've probably seen pricing out to be a bit more expensive, but alot of the time you get what you pay for.

Snograt · Jun 30, 2008, 05:53 PM // 17:53

Pretty identical, those two. The iBuy one comes with HD audio onboard, but the other doesn't specify (probably does, though.)

The iBuy one comes with a free t-shirt and carrying case. Free crap! Go with that one!!

Or, the CyberPower one comes with a fully transparent side window. More blue glowy! Buy that one!!

Will that run GW2? 8400, hmm. Probably struggle a bit, but who knows

At that price range, you're stuck with a 19" at best. Lookie, open-box special - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...2E16824001269R

Crimson Flame · Jun 30, 2008, 07:37 PM // 19:37

I'm willing to entertain the idea of building my own computer. However, I would need to set out a couple of ground rules:

I don't have a top of the line budget. I'm willing to take slightly out of date, since as of right now all I play on my computer is GW. If it'll get me 40-50 FPS consistently on GW, I'd be happy. Right now my computer runs about 12 FPS and deals with constant (minor) video errors, so anything is an upgrade.
I'd need something that is, like Lurid said, pretty much plug and play. I know a little about working with computers, but absolutely nothing about building them.
Max price, monitor included, would have to be $750 or less - preferably less, since I can get essentially the same deal without having to do any building by buying it myself.

So have at it! Give me lists of items, whatever you think I'd need to be able to build an incredible mid-line rig.

moriz · Jun 30, 2008, 08:09 PM // 20:09

Snograt · Jun 30, 2008, 08:54 PM // 20:54

Unlike you to recommend a PATA DVD writer, Moriz

moriz · Jun 30, 2008, 08:59 PM // 20:59

oops :S

ok, replace the optical drive with this one:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16827106057

Tamuril elansar · Jun 30, 2008, 09:42 PM // 21:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

the HD4850 will be enough for GW2 i bet.

careful with it though, because it only has two flaws:
1) its longer than i thought. had to rearrange my PC interior.
2) it idles at 72C.

EDIT: stupid moriz, make sure the system really is idle before posting the temps.

i heard it was only 9.5 inch, not that much of a difference with a 9600GT